Was Microsoft stupid of chasing consoles and abandoning PC?

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Avatar image for KBFloYd
#51 Edited by KBFloYd (20770 posts) -

aside from developing windows and direct X, how did MS ever have the PC market?

They never made a real effort. they just developed the tools. And put some games on it.

They never tried to really cut a piece of the PC pie. It was only until games for windows live. which flopped. now they are trying again this gen with playanywhere and using microsoft store/xbox app.

valve had the right idea that actually made PC gaming what it is.

Avatar image for Sevenizz
#52 Posted by Sevenizz (2030 posts) -

@vaidream45: Im sorry you feel that way and your situation is purely anecdotal. I love my X1X and I have plenty of fun with it.

Avatar image for jun_aka_pekto
#53 Edited by jun_aka_pekto (24263 posts) -
@KBFloYd said:

aside from developing windows and direct X, how did MS ever have the PC market?

They never made a real effort. they just developed the tools. And put some games on it.

They never tried to really cut a piece of the PC pie. It was only until games for windows live. which flopped. now they are trying again this gen with playanywhere and using microsoft store/xbox app.

valve had the right idea that actually made PC gaming what it is.

They genuinely made an effort to get into PC gaming late 90's to early 2000's. There were Microsoft-branded joysticks and gamepads, Wi-Fi adapters and routers. They even had network connectivity through Firewire in early Windows XP. Just hook up two computers with a Firewire cable and instant LAN for gaming.

Then, they yanked it all away once X-Box came out. MS fricking yanked the driver for the joystick port in most sound cards. Same for Firewire networking. I was pissed to see my MS peripherals suddenly quit working in XP. I tried using Creative Labs' joystick port driver. Nope. My Sidewinder 3D pro still refused to work.

My stuff from 2003. MS Sidewinder 3D Pro joystick, MS USB WiFi adapter. MS wireless keyboard n mouse, and I should have a MS WiFi B wireless router hidden somewhere.

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#54 Posted by superbuuman (6347 posts) -

pay to play online subscription was never gonna happen on PC...lol..PC gamers would not allow it..so console was their only way. Competitions are good..never want Sony or Nintendo to monopolise...the 3 keeps each other in check..

Avatar image for vaidream45
#55 Posted by Vaidream45 (1283 posts) -

@Sevenizz: see, I can totally respect that. It’s the ones that only brag about the 1x power and nothing else assuming dominance that I don’t respect. My pc can crush all consoles but it’s worthless to me if it isn’t fun. I’m currently experiencing that as I find myself with a pc, ps4, and Switch and 90% of the time I’m playing the least powerful of them all in the Switch. But it’s a fun console to me so I always defend that fun factor. If I could port over ps4 games to a 1x I would have bought that any day of the week.

Avatar image for theone86
#56 Posted by theone86 (22239 posts) -

Honestly, I wish Microsoft would get out of the PC game, too. In fact, I wish it would just plain die. It would be karmic payback for all the shady crap they've pulled over the years.

Avatar image for XVision84
#57 Posted by XVision84 (14256 posts) -

In a way, I'm glad they got trounced this gen. It forced them to course correct and it led to Xbox game pass. I'm looking forward to seeing what they pull off in the future, it looks like they're turning things around.

Avatar image for theone86
#58 Posted by theone86 (22239 posts) -
@KBFloYd said:

aside from developing windows and direct X, how did MS ever have the PC market?

They never made a real effort. they just developed the tools. And put some games on it.

They never tried to really cut a piece of the PC pie. It was only until games for windows live. which flopped. now they are trying again this gen with playanywhere and using microsoft store/xbox app.

valve had the right idea that actually made PC gaming what it is.

Lolololololololol! Microsoft, to this day, owns the PC market. They are installed on 87.3% of all computers worldwide. Think about that, Mac OS and every Linux distro combined only make up less than 13% of all operating systems (maybe a slight bit more due to dual-booting, but still). That is absolutely massive. Furthermore, it's only recently that most games have gotten Mac versions, I still remember the days when my Mac friends were SOL when it came to gaming, and Linux is still lagging far behind in that category. In fact, gaming compatibility is one of the biggest reasons people cite as not switching over to Linux from Windows. Valve made itself what it is today by working within the Windows framework and not challenging Microsoft the way that Netscape did back in the 90s. Just because Microsoft isn't gobbling up exclusives the way that console manufacturers do doesn't mean they don't have an effective chokehold on PC gaming. in fact, it's probably even more effective than console exclusives.

Avatar image for jun_aka_pekto
#59 Posted by jun_aka_pekto (24263 posts) -
@theone86 said:

Lolololololololol! Microsoft, to this day, owns the PC market. They are installed on 87.3% of all computers worldwide. Think about that, Mac OS and every Linux distro combined only make up less than 13% of all operating systems (maybe a slight bit more due to dual-booting, but still). That is absolutely massive. Furthermore, it's only recently that most games have gotten Mac versions, I still remember the days when my Mac friends were SOL when it came to gaming, and Linux is still lagging far behind in that category. In fact, gaming compatibility is one of the biggest reasons people cite as not switching over to Linux from Windows. Valve made itself what it is today by working within the Windows framework and not challenging Microsoft the way that Netscape did back in the 90s. Just because Microsoft isn't gobbling up exclusives the way that console manufacturers do doesn't mean they don't have an effective chokehold on PC gaming. in fact, it's probably even more effective than console exclusives.

There have always been a dedicated group of Mac developers who have either ported Windows games or outright developed their own games for the Mac. Heck. Bungie was one of them.

Mac gamers didn't get all the Windows games. But, they got plenty enough. I wouldn't call the Mac gaming landscape barren. It's Linux that has really been lacking in commercial games.

Avatar image for rzxv04
#60 Posted by rzxv04 (237 posts) -

Wasn't XBLive a novel and profitable idea stemming from the 360? maybe not?

Avatar image for Pedro
#61 Posted by Pedro (31728 posts) -

As if Microsoft was ever a developer force in PC gaming.

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#62 Edited by ronvalencia (26338 posts) -

@Juub1990 said:

It is quite ironic that Microsoft is at best a court jester in the PC kingdom it built. If they had taken the initiative before Valve, they would be the ones dominating the PC digital market. Of course they tried, over a decade ago, but failed miserably because unlike the people at Valve who are passionate game developers/engineers/artists etc, Microsoft's top brass was and is still made up of soulless men in suits and ties who only speak the accounting language and nothing else.

So was Microsoft stupid for chasing the console market when the PC could have been the far more lucrative and easier option? These days they're getting trounced by Sony and to a lesser extent Nintendo in the console space and are firmly behind Valve/Ubisoft/EA/Blizzard in the PC space. They're basically stuck in no man's land and was it really worth it for one successful console that was by all accounts not very profitable?

Xbox SKU was designed for the above problem. Xbox SKU is not needed for China where Windows PC dominates over desktop game consoles.

In terms of game revenue for 2018,

Sony has $17 billion

MS has $10 billion

Nintendo has $9 billion

Valve doesn't make it to the top 5 list since EA and Activision has their own game stores. MS beaten both EA and Activision.

Avatar image for xantufrog
#63 Posted by xantufrog (9801 posts) -

@Juub1990: dude, chill out. I came to say "yes", but you kind of unloaded on people. I feel like there's much more insane fanboy drivel on here to get mad about before getting mad at them

Avatar image for xantufrog
#64 Edited by xantufrog (9801 posts) -

@jun_aka_pekto: I disagree - linux has tons of games now. It's definitely the best it has ever been. You can actually play major AAA titles natively on it now. That was unimaginable back in the day

Avatar image for Juub1990
#65 Posted by Juub1990 (8200 posts) -

@xantufrog: Then tell people to put more effort into their trolling. Nothing more annoying than no-effort and lazy troll attempts. Wouldn’t annoy me if it was at least subtle.

Avatar image for N30F3N1X
#66 Edited by N30F3N1X (8861 posts) -

@Juub1990 said:

It is quite ironic that Microsoft is at best a court jester in the PC kingdom it built. If they had taken the initiative before Valve, they would be the ones dominating the PC digital market. Of course they tried, over a decade ago, but failed miserably because unlike the people at Valve who are passionate game developers/engineers/artists etc, Microsoft's top brass was and is still made up of soulless men in suits and ties who only speak the accounting language and nothing else.

So was Microsoft stupid for chasing the console market when the PC could have been the far more lucrative and easier option? These days they're getting trounced by Sony and to a lesser extent Nintendo in the console space and are firmly behind Valve/Ubisoft/EA/Blizzard in the PC space. They're basically stuck in no man's land and was it really worth it for one successful console that was by all accounts not very profitable?

The two things aren't mutually exclusive, Microsoft should've chased both the console and the PC markets. So yeah, they were dead wrong in abandoning the PC market.

I'm not even sure why they did that either. They had, and still have, a f*ckton of available resource and capable workers in their ranks. Sometimes they do put out some amazing games like Age of Empires (never liked it myself but its success is undeniable, the franchise sold over 20 million freaking copies), Rise of Nations, Mark of the Ninja and the majority of the Simulator games. It's not like they have no chance at establishing their presence, they just don't want to.

Avatar image for jun_aka_pekto
#67 Posted by jun_aka_pekto (24263 posts) -
@xantufrog said:

@jun_aka_pekto: I disagree - linux has tons of games now. It's definitely the best it has ever been. You can actually play major AAA titles natively on it now. That was unimaginable back in the day

Now it does. I wouldn't be surprised if the Linux developers are the same ones developing/porting games for the Mac.

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#68 Posted by Archangel3371 (26059 posts) -

@Juub1990: Tell me how exactly me simply saying that I’m happy that Microsoft is in the console space is trolling. Did I crap on your opinion? No. Did I make any disparaging comments about PC? Again, no. This notion that someone always has to make some detailed response and can’t simply say that they like something or else they’ll be called a “shill” is ridiculous. I simply said that I was happy with Microsoft being in the console space and you decided to crap on my opinion so the onus is on you pal.

Avatar image for Juub1990
#69 Posted by Juub1990 (8200 posts) -

@Archangel3371: Not talking about you.

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#70 Posted by cainetao11 (35573 posts) -

@sealionact said:

@Juub1990: "Well you're a shill not like your opinion counts."

Well then don't fucking ask for opinions dopey.

@Juub1990 said:

@sealionact: Man shut the **** up. Opinions can be valid provided they aren’t given by shills. You dumbass.

There is no need for that dude. You made a thread in a forum named SW then blame the people you know frequent it because they have a preference in platform, for responding. Put it in General Games Discussion if you don't like anyone that has favoritism.

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#71 Posted by Archangel3371 (26059 posts) -

@Juub1990: Alright then.

Avatar image for Juub1990
#72 Posted by Juub1990 (8200 posts) -
@cainetao11 said:

There is no need for that dude. You made a thread in a forum named SW then blame the people you know frequent it because they have a preference in platform, for responding. Put it in General Games Discussion if you don't like anyone that has favoritism.

And that's where you're wrong. The issue isn't whether or not you like the Xbox. I have nothing against that and don't blame people for their preferences. The issue I have is when I take my time to ask and preface a very specific question in the OP and the answer has...nothing to do with it.

Avatar image for Archangel3371
#73 Posted by Archangel3371 (26059 posts) -

@Juub1990: You asked if “Microsoft was stupid in chasing after consoles and abandoning PC?”

I answered: “Nope. I am happy that Microsoft is in the console space.”

Seems like an entirely relevant response to your question to me.

Like I said before it was on you that you decided to crap on my opinion.

Avatar image for Juub1990
#74 Edited by Juub1990 (8200 posts) -
@Archangel3371 said:

@Juub1990: You asked if “Microsoft was stupid in chasing after consoles and abandoning PC?”

I answered: “Nope. I am happy that Microsoft is in the console space.”

Seems like an entirely relevant response to your question to me.

Like I said before it was on you that you decided to crap on my opinion.

I didn't ask whether or not you were happy Microsoft were in the console space which is the question you gave an answer to. The question was about Microsoft and the mistakes they made along the way that earned them what will most likely be a bronze medal this gen. If they had taken a different approach, would they have been better off? Was it wise to let Valve dominate the PC space? What about their bottom line? These are the questions asked in the OP.

None of which are answered by your response.

Avatar image for Archangel3371
#75 Posted by Archangel3371 (26059 posts) -

@Juub1990: Sure and if others want to get into the nitty gritty and voice their opinions and guesstimations on those then fine they can have at it. I just gave my opinion on the general overall question.

Avatar image for cainetao11
#76 Posted by cainetao11 (35573 posts) -

@Juub1990 said:
@cainetao11 said:

There is no need for that dude. You made a thread in a forum named SW then blame the people you know frequent it because they have a preference in platform, for responding. Put it in General Games Discussion if you don't like anyone that has favoritism.

And that's where you're wrong. The issue isn't whether or not you like the Xbox. I have nothing against that and don't blame people for their preferences. The issue I have is when I take my time to ask and preface a very specific question in the OP and the answer has...nothing to do with it.

Even if that were the bare bones truth, and it isn't as anyone can read on the first page, your insult to someone answering your question was uncalled for. What in this thread did he do to deserve that?

Avatar image for Postosuchus
#77 Posted by Postosuchus (605 posts) -

Frankly I think Microsoft "dropping" PC gaming was the best thing to happen for PC Gamers. Yes, we miss some of their quality franchises like Mechwarrior, Flight Simulator and Age of Empire, but IMO it worth the price of avoiding MS dominance; you all know they would double down on the Games For Windows Live BS, and we would be living with Apple-style walled gardens with nothing but Pay to Play Online, Always Online DRM, limited backwards compatibility, forced upgrades, and the "privilege" of being locked out of third-party options like GOG. So I'll thank you Microsoft, to keep that crap on consoles where it belongs.

Avatar image for cainetao11
#78 Edited by cainetao11 (35573 posts) -

@Juub1990 said:
@kali-b1rd said:

They've done decent enough on consoles.

They also forced archiac Japanese companies to step up their game.

That being said, maybe if Microsoft didn't popularise online on consoles.... maybe we wouldn't have seen so much dumbing down of online gaming for the lowest common denominator. I fully convinced if XBOX wasn't around ... console peasants would still have terrible online, because the Japanese arm of the industry is in its own bubble.

@vagrantsnow said:

They seem to have done alright for themselves and they've pushed console gaming much further than it would be under Sony's or Nintendo's dominance. They would probably have still been a bigger player on PC if they didn't try to charge people to play multiplayer on PC way back in the Games for Windows Live days

@the_master_race said:

@Juub1990: I'm glad they're in console gaming because it won't let Sony & Nintendo monopolize the market, while abandoning PC gaming was a big mistake , it's better lose the saddle than the horse , another thing that really frustrates me is that they start these ambitious projects and they always left them unfinished , canceling great IP's like Scalebound ... such a shame

@boycie

These are valid responses. A lot more thought out than "Hur hur, I like them". His response was just expressing his love for Microsoft which honestly there is nothing wrong with but they didn't address any points made in the OP nor did he even make an argument.

As long as a moderator doesn't find him to have broken a rule or disruptive posting, then by forum rules his response was as valid anyones on SW.

You, yourself say there is honestly nothing wrong with it. So why be a bitch and throw insults?

Avatar image for Juub1990
#79 Posted by Juub1990 (8200 posts) -
@cainetao11 said:

Even if that were the bare bones truth, and it isn't as anyone can read on the first page, your insult to someone answering your question was uncalled for. What in this thread did he do to deserve that?

Am I reading this right? The man who calls other people dildo brains is campaigning for niceness now?

Avatar image for GarGx1
#80 Posted by GarGx1 (10410 posts) -
@rmpumper said:

Why? They made billion from xbox and they were never into PC gaming market to begin with (before the original box).

Microsoft has/had some fantastic PC I.P's

Age of Empires

Close Combat

Freelancer

Mechcommander (Battletech)

Mechwarrior

MS Flight Simulator

Rise of Legends

Rise of Nations

To name but a few, even Halo was originally a PC exclusive until they decided that it would be a good idea to put it on their new console as well. When it sold really well they turned it in to an Xbox exclusive instead, that also coincided with them getting the finger from PC gamers over Games for Windows Live..

Avatar image for cainetao11
#81 Posted by cainetao11 (35573 posts) -

@Juub1990 said:
@cainetao11 said:

Even if that were the bare bones truth, and it isn't as anyone can read on the first page, your insult to someone answering your question was uncalled for. What in this thread did he do to deserve that?

Am I reading this right? The man who calls other people dildo brains is campaigning for niceness now?

LOL atta boy!!!

Avatar image for GarGx1
#82 Posted by GarGx1 (10410 posts) -
@ronvalencia said:
@Juub1990 said:

It is quite ironic that Microsoft is at best a court jester in the PC kingdom it built. If they had taken the initiative before Valve, they would be the ones dominating the PC digital market. Of course they tried, over a decade ago, but failed miserably because unlike the people at Valve who are passionate game developers/engineers/artists etc, Microsoft's top brass was and is still made up of soulless men in suits and ties who only speak the accounting language and nothing else.

So was Microsoft stupid for chasing the console market when the PC could have been the far more lucrative and easier option? These days they're getting trounced by Sony and to a lesser extent Nintendo in the console space and are firmly behind Valve/Ubisoft/EA/Blizzard in the PC space. They're basically stuck in no man's land and was it really worth it for one successful console that was by all accounts not very profitable?

Xbox SKU was designed for the above problem. Xbox SKU is not needed for China where Windows PC dominates over desktop game consoles.

In terms of game revenue for 2018,

Sony has $17 billion

MS has $10 billion

Nintendo has $9 billion

Valve doesn't make it to the top 5 list since EA and Activision has their own game stores. MS beaten both EA and Activision.

Your world is so small Ron, it makes me sad.

Avatar image for theone86
#83 Edited by theone86 (22239 posts) -
@jun_aka_pekto said:
@theone86 said:

Lolololololololol! Microsoft, to this day, owns the PC market. They are installed on 87.3% of all computers worldwide. Think about that, Mac OS and every Linux distro combined only make up less than 13% of all operating systems (maybe a slight bit more due to dual-booting, but still). That is absolutely massive. Furthermore, it's only recently that most games have gotten Mac versions, I still remember the days when my Mac friends were SOL when it came to gaming, and Linux is still lagging far behind in that category. In fact, gaming compatibility is one of the biggest reasons people cite as not switching over to Linux from Windows. Valve made itself what it is today by working within the Windows framework and not challenging Microsoft the way that Netscape did back in the 90s. Just because Microsoft isn't gobbling up exclusives the way that console manufacturers do doesn't mean they don't have an effective chokehold on PC gaming. in fact, it's probably even more effective than console exclusives.

There have always been a dedicated group of Mac developers who have either ported Windows games or outright developed their own games for the Mac. Heck. Bungie was one of them.

Mac gamers didn't get all the Windows games. But, they got plenty enough. I wouldn't call the Mac gaming landscape barren. It's Linux that has really been lacking in commercial games.

I didn't call Mac barren, but they're definitely behind Windows, which is saying something when you consider how popular Macs are. Anyway, my point wasn't "yay, Microsoft is dominating PC gaming," my point was that Microsoft doesn't care if people game on Mac or if Valve owns game sales. Any barrier they can put up to gaming on other OSes drives sales of their OS. They lock people into their ecosystem because it's just easier than not to do so, same way they made IE the most popular browser for a period despite it being obviously inferior. Winning PC gaming isn't about selling the most games for them, it's about selling Windows and Windows PCs.