Radeon VII reveal burries the hopes for trully High-end Next-gen consoles.

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Avatar image for zaryia
#51 Posted by Zaryia (7001 posts) -
@Telekill said:

Damn now he's trying to play it all off as a troll with pure insults.

SAD!

Avatar image for Telekill
#52 Posted by Telekill (8230 posts) -

@zaryia: Not really. I just think you PC elitists need to grow the **** up.

Avatar image for blackhairedhero
#53 Posted by Blackhairedhero (2538 posts) -

If I get over 12 flops , a smart design and full BC then I'll be happy.

Avatar image for zaryia
#54 Posted by Zaryia (7001 posts) -
@Telekill said:

@zaryia: grow the **** up.

But you're the only one cursing and having a tantrum as seen above.

Avatar image for Telekill
#55 Edited by Telekill (8230 posts) -

@zaryia: No tantrum on my part. I'm simply pointing them out. I've seen dozens of tantrums from you specifically in various threads from the last couple years.

It generally starts with you trashing other people's opinions. They disagree with you. There's a back and forth. You eventually throw a tantrum because people don't capitulate to your whims. Rinse and repeat.

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#56 Posted by mazuiface (686 posts) -

Whatever. I have a strong PC and I'll probably end up buying a PS5 for exclusives - unless they do something like MS is doing by releasing all of their games on PC which would be kind of nice.

Either way I'm set

Avatar image for zaryia
#57 Posted by Zaryia (7001 posts) -
@Telekill said:

@zaryia: No tantrum on my part. I'm simply pointing them out. I've seen dozens of tantrums from you specifically in various threads from the last couple years.

It generally starts with you trashing other people's opinions. They disagree with you. There's a back and forth. You eventually throw a tantrum because people don't capitulate to your whims. Rinse and repeat.

Nope. I just fact check.

Avatar image for Telekill
#58 Posted by Telekill (8230 posts) -

@zaryia: Lol... sure...

It's been fun but I'm not in the mood to continue tonight. Have a good one.

Avatar image for Diddies
#59 Posted by Diddies (2296 posts) -

@Telekill said:

@zaryia: Not really. I just think you PC elitists need to grow the **** up.

Says the guy supposedly trying to be a troll. Sounds like you are the one that needs to grow up.

Avatar image for ronvalencia
#60 Edited by ronvalencia (26633 posts) -

@loco145 said:

@ronvalencia:

The 1060 sustains 4k on Gears of War 4 just fine. So does Forza H 4.

I'm sure the others can achieve that too.

Anyway, MS PC ports aren't the best. For third party games, the 1060 and 580 perform even better in comparison.

Wrong with Gears of War 4 http://youtu.be/aw3HZJwTDNc?t=583 e.g. low AA.

Over clocked GTX 1060

Anti-Aliasing: Low

Temporal AA Sharpening: Med

Foliage Draw Distance: Med

World Level of Detail: Med

Character Level Detail: Med

Motion Blur: Med

Light Shaft Quality: Med

Light Scattering Quality: Med

Lens Flare QUality: Med

Shadow Quality: Med

Capsule Shadow Quality: Med

Ambient Occlusion QUality: Med

Post Process Quality: Med

Screen Space Reflections: Med

Xbox One X

http://hiddenfallsgolfclub.com/articles/xbox-one-x-pc-and-xbox-one-graphics-comparison-gea/1100-6454615/

While discussing Gears of War 4, reviewer Jimmy Thang said, "In terms of pure image fidelity, it surprisingly looked better than our high-end gaming PC equipped with a GTX 1080 running the game maxed out, as it offered extra dynamic shadows that don't seem to be available on the PC.

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2016-gears-of-war-4-face-off

Temporal AA sharpening: XBO has high settings

Character level of detail: XBO has high settings

Foliage draw distance: XBO has high settings

Light shaft quality: XBO has high settings

light scattering quality: XBO has high settings

bloom quality: XBO has high settings

Volumetric lighting: XBO has medium settings

Bloom and lens flare quality: XBO has high settings

Dynamic shadows: XBO has ultra settings

Contact shadows: XBO has medium-high settings

Screen space reflections: XBO has medium settings

Depth of field: XBO has high settings

Sub-surface scattering: XBO has high settings

Try again.

Avatar image for ronvalencia
#61 Posted by ronvalencia (26633 posts) -

@loco145 said:

@ronvalencia:

The 1060 sustains 4k on Gears of War 4 just fine. So does Forza H 4.

I'm sure the others can achieve that too.

Anyway, MS PC ports aren't the best. For third party games, the 1060 and 580 perform even better in comparison.

Against your Forza Horizon 4 example, where's your Forza Motorsport 7's wet scene?

Santiago Santiago's GTX 1060 has 1873 MHz overclock which yields 4.78 TFLOPS.

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#62 Posted by SaltSlasher (611 posts) -

How does Radeon VII mean anything for consoles....its expensive as shit.

One X is the power of a video card over half its cost, I had the same power like 1-2 years prior yet I paid the price of a One X for it.

When Anaconda comes in a couple years it could easily have 2070 level performance, a techincally people can pay to have 1-2 years prior for the cost of an Anaconda. And last time I checked a 2070 was near 1080 Ti, so PC people paid a small fortune to have that level of graphics years prior, makes no difference for consoles, cause consoles are consoles not PCs.

So is 2060 to 2070 level power lame in consoles in 2021? People who have it now paying a shit ton to have it, and people who owned a 1080 Ti payed out the ass for it, just like anyone with 2080 Ti pay out both asshole and dickhole, and chances are even PS6 won't have 2080 Ti performance.

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#63 Edited by ronvalencia (26633 posts) -

@saltslasher said:

How does Radeon VII mean anything for consoles....its expensive as shit.

One X is the power of a video card over half its cost, I had the same power like 1-2 years prior yet I paid the price of a One X for it.

When Anaconda comes in a couple years it could easily have 2070 level performance, a techincally people can pay to have 1-2 years prior for the cost of an Anaconda. And last time I checked a 2070 was near 1080 Ti, so PC people paid a small fortune to have that level of graphics years prior, makes no difference for consoles, cause consoles are consoles not PCs.

So is 2060 to 2070 level power lame in consoles in 2021? People who have it now paying a shit ton to have it, and people who owned a 1080 Ti payed out the ass for it, just like anyone with 2080 Ti pay out both asshole and dickhole, and chances are even PS6 won't have 2080 Ti performance.

Xbox One X's ~281 mm2 size GPU already has 44 CUs without VII's features

1. Rapid Pack Math (octo rate INT4, quad rate INT8, dual rate FP16/INT16) and half rate FP64 features. FP64 is useless for games. VII includes Machine Learning instruction set and Microsoft has DirectML APIs for Machine Learning capable hardware.

Polaris IP has it's pack math feature. but using pack math feature reduces the available ALU for full FP32 data elements. This problem was fixed on Vega IP.

2. High bandwidth cache below L2 cache. Mostly useless for games.

3. 64 ROPS.

X1X GPU (2MB L2 cache for TMU + 2MB render cache for ROPS) ~= Vega 64's unified 4MB L2 cache for TMU and ROPS.

Xbox One X's ~281 mm2 size GPU is built on 16 nm process node

VII's ~331 mm2 size GPU is built on 7 nm process node. Cutting out VII's workstation features could reduce VII into Xbox One X's 281 mm2 GPU size.

According to TSMC/AMD, 7nm delivers 50 percent reduce power consumption at the same clock speed and logic gates complexity (e.g. 1536Mhz) when compared to 16 nm,

7nm+ has another 10 percent power consumption reduction.

AMD could fit Xbox One X with game console optimised Vega 64 based on VII's and 7nm+ improvements.

It's question on reducing CU count for higher clock speed to improve rasterization power e.g. 48 CU at 1710 Mhz or 1800Mhz instead of 64 CU at 1536 Mhz.

MI60 (full VII with 64 CU active) has 1800Mhz with 64 CU and 300 watts and 44 CU version is 68 percent of 300 watts, hence 200 watts. Navi 12 has 40 CU and has less than 200 watts. At the same clock speed e.g. 1800Mhz the relationship between 44 CU and 64 CU resembles R9-390X's 44CU with 64 ROPS vs Fury X's 64 CU with 64 ROPs which R9-390X can get close to Fury Pro with 56 CU.

RTX 2070 is near GTX 1080

RTX 2080 is near GTX 1080 Ti

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#64 Edited by scatteh316 (10057 posts) -

I love how people who know jack shit about hardware try and debate about it.

AMD's current graphics card have been bottlenecked for a few generations now....... why do you think Nvidia cards with a lower Tflop rating are just as fast if not faster?

If AMD just address the unbalanced nature of their architecture it would generate a huge performance increase (which they have already stated they are addressing them)

Vega 56 is just as fast as Vega 64 at the same clock speed despite vega 64 has more shader cores........ why???

When you understand the answer to that question you'll realise comparing Tflop count between current and upcoming AMD architectures is stupid.

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#65 Posted by scatteh316 (10057 posts) -
@blackhairedhero said:

@pc_rocks: An X1X stomps a 970. And you say I make up my own facts?

PC-Rock has a GTX970 which is why he defends it so much....... it's a trash GPU by todays standards and when run at the resolutions X1X runs games at it falls flat on it's face.

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#66 Edited by adamosmaki (10677 posts) -
@ronvalencia said:
@goldenelementxl said:

@ronvalencia: You spent a year+ telling us the Xbox One X GPU was equal to a GTX 1070. (and at one point you started talking 1080) What did we end up with???

Source

That's 1080p resolution

1. Gears of War 4 4K sustain 30 fps story mode, GTX 1060 and RX-580 fails to reach X1X's 4K results

2. Forza Motorsport 7 4K wet scenes sustain 60 fps, GTX 1060 and RX-580 fails to reach X1X's results

3. Far Cry 5 4K sustain 30 fps, GTX 1060 and RX-580 fails to reach X1X's results

4. Kill Instinct Season 3 4K nearly sustain 60 fps, GTX 980 Ti or GTX 1070 level. GTX 1060 fails to reach X1X's results.

At lower resolution like 1920x1080p, it's mostly CPU bound.

You are talking as if X1X is something special. X1X and Rx 580 share the same architecture 1X has 6tflop gpu and rx 580 a bit more so one can compare them. They will get similar results if the game is well optimized even at 4k

Here 4k forza horizon 4 similar settings to 1X and even the RX 570 is able to maintain a locked 30fps. X1X use 4xMsaa but its also using SSAO with medium/high quality setting which is a step below from what shown here

Here is Gears of war at 4k and rx 480 locked 30fps high settings . An rx 580 will get you an extra 5-10% more performance

No Caption Provided

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#67 Edited by ronvalencia (26633 posts) -

@adamosmaki said:
@ronvalencia said:

That's 1080p resolution

1. Gears of War 4 4K sustain 30 fps story mode, GTX 1060 and RX-580 fails to reach X1X's 4K results

2. Forza Motorsport 7 4K wet scenes sustain 60 fps, GTX 1060 and RX-580 fails to reach X1X's results

3. Far Cry 5 4K sustain 30 fps, GTX 1060 and RX-580 fails to reach X1X's results

4. Kill Instinct Season 3 4K nearly sustain 60 fps, GTX 980 Ti or GTX 1070 level. GTX 1060 fails to reach X1X's results.

At lower resolution like 1920x1080p, it's mostly CPU bound.

You are talking as if X1X is something special. X1X and Rx 580 share the same architecture 1X has 6tflop gpu and rx 580 a bit more so one can compare them. They will get similar results if the game is well optimized even at 4k

Here 4k forza horizon 4 similar settings to 1X and even the RX 570 is able to maintain a locked 30fps. X1X use 4xMsaa but its also using SSAO with medium/high quality setting which is a step below from what shown here

Here is Gears of war at 4k and rx 480 locked 30fps high settings . An rx 580 will get you an extra 5-10% more performance

This is why stated Forza Motorsport 7's wet tracks NOT Forza Horizon 4.

MSI RX 480 Gaming X has 1316 Mhz (6.064 TFLOPS) overclocked while RX-580 has 1340 Mhz. MSI RX 480 Gaming X is nearly RX-580! Notice the minimum frame rate is 29.6. fps at high settings. Your benchmark's MSI RX-480 GX is NOT reference RX-480

X1X Gears of War 4 has higher graphics settings over XBO's version

Read http://news.xbox.com/en-us/2017/10/23/gears-4-xbox-one-x-enhancements/

Push graphical fidelity to the max. This mode uses Ultra Quality Textures, a wealth of new and improved graphical features all at 4K resolution (3840×2160) thanks to the power of Xbox One X. You’ll experience the same frame rates you’ve come to expect from Gears of War 4 – 30fps for Campaign and Horde .

Enhanced Light Shafts

Also known as God Rays, Enhanced Light Shafts provide true-to-life beams of sunlight in the world. Prepare for jaw dropping lighting as the God Rays peek through gaps in the canopy of trees above you, or in sunset conditions peeking through buildings and statues.

Dynamic Shadows

Shadows in Gears of War 4 are usually pre-defined by an artist to accurately reflect the shadows objects in the world would cast based on the lighting. On Xbox One X, dynamic shadows now react true to the lighting conditions and movement of objects – for example, trees blowing in the wind will cast an accurate moving shadow on the ground – bringing the world of Sera to life like never before.

Increased Draw Distances

With the power of Xbox One X, we can maintain higher resolution textures at a further distance than ever before – creating a higher fidelity picture and crisper world around you, even on the horizon.

Superior Reflections

We’ve pushed our surface space reflections even further to look closer to as you would expect in real life. Reflective surfaces now have a higher definition reflection of your character – whether that’s in a mirror-like reflection of water, or the muddied color reflective nature of metal. It looks especially awesome on the DeeBee’s metallic armor!

Enhanced Character Textures

With our higher resolution textures now available on console thanks to Xbox One X, characters show more detail from head to toe. They’ve never looked better!

MS used X1X GPU's TMU superiority while you shown "high" graphics settings

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-2016-gears-of-war-4-face-off

Temporal AA sharpening: XBO has high settings

Character level of detail: XBO has high settings

Foliage draw distance: XBO has high settings, X1X has setting upgrade e.g. ultra

Light shaft quality: XBO has high settings, X1X has setting upgrade e.g. ultra

light scattering quality: XBO has high settings

bloom quality: XBO has high settings

Volumetric lighting: XBO has medium settings

Bloom and lens flare quality: XBO has high settings

Dynamic shadows: XBO has ultra settings, X1X has setting upgrade i.e. beyond ultra. Microsoft using X1X's extra memory bandwidth advantage.

Contact shadows: XBO has medium-high settings, X1X has setting upgrade e.g. high(?)

Screen space reflections: XBO has medium settings, X1X has setting upgrade e.g. high(?) or ultra

Depth of field: XBO has high settings

Sub-surface scattering: XBO has high settings

Textures: X1X has ultra settings, Microsoft using X1X's TMU and extra memory bandwidth advantage.

RX-580 or MSI Gaming X RX-480's frame rates will be reduced below your shown benchmark when some of it's graphics settings are set to ultra.

At Ultra settings, R9-390X (5.9 TFLOPS with the same raster power as Fury Pro/Fury X) smashed RX-480's 5.83 TFLOPS. Fury X's 8.6 TFLOPS was nearly useless when R9-390X's has 5.9 TFLOPS.

If R9-390X was with Polaris IP, R9-390X would be even better GCN e.g.

1. L2 cache from 1MB to 2MB. Many modern games could exceed 1MB L2 cache storage. X1X GPU's ROPS has 2MB render cache which is missing with Polaris IP.

2. Second generation delta color compression. R9-390X doesn't have delta color compression.

NAVI 12 with 40 CU and 256bit GDDR6 would be PC market's update for R9-390X class GCN complementing VII SKU i.e. R9-390X with VII + Navi updates.

R9-390X with VII's 1800Mhz scaling lands on Titan X Pascal (slowest GP102 variant) LOL.

Fury X with VII's 1800Mhz scaling lands above Titan X Pascal (slowest GP102 variant) with estimated 60 fps which is about GTX 1080 Ti or RTX 2080 level.

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#68 Posted by HalcyonScarlet (8249 posts) -

Been saying it for a while. I just don't see a substantial performance increase over the XXbone for $400 any time soon.

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#69 Edited by ronvalencia (26633 posts) -

@HalcyonScarlet said:

Been saying it for a while. I just don't see a substantial performance increase over the XXbone for $400 any time soon.

At 1536 Mhz 64 ROPS, that's 2.62X over X1X's ROPS setup.

At 1800 Mhz 64 ROPS, that's 3.07X over X1X's ROPS setup.

Significant performance gains for games with ROPS read-write bias or ROPS bound. Smaller performance gains when games has TMU read-write path optimizations

The core reason for AMD's async compute shader marketing i.e. workaround for GCN's ROPS bound problems. GTX 1080 Ti/RTX 2080 TI are good for both ROPS and TMU read-write workloads.

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#71 Posted by Blackhairedhero (2538 posts) -

@zaryia: When people throw facts in your face you have a meltdown.

Avatar image for zaryia
#72 Posted by Zaryia (7001 posts) -
@blackhairedhero said:

@zaryia: When people throw facts in your face you have a meltdown.

You have lost literally every single debate we've ever been in.

You're my dog.

Avatar image for blackhairedhero
#73 Posted by Blackhairedhero (2538 posts) -

@zaryia: I have literally rekt you in every debate we have ever been in.

You spin shit in 5 different directions and then have an absolute meltdown and apparently the entire forum sees it. After you get wasted you will cling on one particular point of an argument and make someone prove you wrong on something that was completely irrelevant to the original conversation.

Avatar image for zaryia
#74 Edited by Zaryia (7001 posts) -
@blackhairedhero said:

@zaryia: I have literally rekt you in every debate we have ever been in.

ROFL Alternative Facts. I can dig up just about any thread and disprove this claim.

IE: Remember that time you said the left had more modern terrorism/violence but I showed 3 legitimate studies that showed otherwise? LMAO!

IE: When you said Red states don't have higher obesity (THEY DO) because their Politicans look better. Lmao red-herring.

Straw man. Red Herring. Goal Post Move.

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#75 Edited by Blackhairedhero (2538 posts) -

@zaryia: The time when you climged on the specific term "terrorist" attack and ignored viloent attacks. That time?

That's the kinda shit you do when you're getting destroyed.

Avatar image for zaryia
#76 Edited by Zaryia (7001 posts) -
@blackhairedhero said:

@zaryia: The time when you climged on the specific term "terrorist" attack and ignored viloent attacks. That time?

That's the kinda shit you do when your getting destroyed.

You denied all 3 verified studies (Government Accountability Office, not Mountain Dew and Black Ops) lmao.

Stop lying bro,

@zaryia said:

@blackhairedhero:

The right does commit more terror deaths than the left.

@blackhairedhero said:

@zaryia: No they don't.

That's how every thread goes. I win you lose.

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#77 Edited by Blackhairedhero (2538 posts) -

@zaryia: You always lose.

Just like you said PC gamers are higher skilled: Wrong

Incels are conservative: Wrong

Avatar image for zaryia
#78 Edited by Zaryia (7001 posts) -
@blackhairedhero said:

@zaryia: You always lose.

I mean I just linked a thread were you objectively lost by saying "no they don't" even though I showed 3 studies directly showing "yes they do".

You kinda always lose buddy.

Like all those times you said PC wasn't first place at SW this gen, even though it is first place at SW this gen.

Avatar image for blackhairedhero
#79 Edited by Blackhairedhero (2538 posts) -

@zaryia:

"Terror attacks" again such a small percentage of overall deaths. The left is responsible for far more deaths overall.

That is literally an imaginary reward you came up with.

This is the shit you do.

Avatar image for zaryia
#80 Edited by Zaryia (7001 posts) -
@blackhairedhero said:

@zaryia:

The left is responsible for far more deaths overall.

1. Then why did you deny the fact I stated about right vs left terrorism? You shouldn't have done that. You screwed up and lost the debate due to it. Then you kept going on and on how the studies were false. You sealed the deal.

2. Citation? I need numbers that the left is responsible for more deaths.

Avatar image for blackhairedhero
#81 Edited by Blackhairedhero (2538 posts) -

@zaryia:

1. Was that the topic of the thread? I usually stay on topic and then you post some off topic counter point.

That's why you lose

2. http://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wsj.com/amp/articles/100-years-of-communismand-100-million-dead-1510011810

The left is at over 100 million so let me know when the right matches that.

Avatar image for zaryia
#82 Edited by Zaryia (7001 posts) -
@blackhairedhero said:

@zaryia:

1. Was that the topic of the thread? I usually stay on topic and then you post some off topic counter point.

2. http://www.google.com/amp/s/www.wsj.com/amp/articles/100-years-of-communismand-100-million-dead-1510011810

The left is at over 100 million so let me know when the right matches that.

That isn't the modern American left we were discussing, rofl what the hell am I reading.

@zaryia said:

@blackhairedhero:

The right does commit more terror deaths than the left.

@blackhairedhero said:

@zaryia: No they don't.

You shouldn't have said this. You were wrong.

You literally lost that thread by trying to say those 3 studies were wrong continuously. You even tried to say Islam was the left and any terrorism for them counted in the left pool.

You lost badly. You're now even spinning again ITT.

Avatar image for blackhairedhero
#83 Edited by Blackhairedhero (2538 posts) -

@zaryia: Communism is left wing. Is that hard for you to understand?

You link Christian extremists to right wing violence. I linked Muslim extremists to left wing violence.

Sounds fair.

Avatar image for zaryia
#84 Edited by Zaryia (7001 posts) -

Found the thread. Here is your first main reply to me:

http://hiddenfallsgolfclub.com/forums/political-gamers-909409192/antifa-and-the-proud-boys-founded-by-gavin-mcinnes-33444041/?page=2

@blackhairedhero said:

@zaryia: The right does not commit more terrorism related deaths that is a lie.

You kept denying that for pages, and kept denying the 3 studies that show in fact the right has committed far more terrorism related deaths, by 10x.

You lost fair and square. Same goes for any thread.

Avatar image for blackhairedhero
#85 Edited by Blackhairedhero (2538 posts) -

@zaryia: You just said communism isn't left wing. You are a dunce.

It is the definition of far left.

You lose again.

Avatar image for zaryia
#86 Edited by Zaryia (7001 posts) -
@blackhairedhero said:

@zaryia: You just said communism isn't left wing. You are a dunce.

We were discussing modern right vs left terrorism in USA. Not Communism and mass murder in other countries, and how idiots think that it has anything to do with the modern American left. You just lost this debate (AGAIN) and now you're moving the goal post. I linked the thread so everyone can see you lose every thread vs me.

You get fucking killed by studies and I love it.

http://hiddenfallsgolfclub.com/forums/political-gamers-909409192/antifa-and-the-proud-boys-founded-by-gavin-mcinnes-33444041/?page=2

Avatar image for blackhairedhero
#87 Edited by Blackhairedhero (2538 posts) -

@zaryia:

I linked Islamic terrorists with the left as you linked Christian theme attacks with the right. Once you do that the left has far more terror related deaths.

You refused to group the two because then you lose.

Avatar image for zaryia
#88 Edited by Zaryia (7001 posts) -
@blackhairedhero said:

@zaryia:

I linked Islamic terrorists with the left as you linked Christian themes attacks with the right. Once you do that the left has far more terror related deaths.

You refused to group the two because then you lose.

I didn't link anything with right wing Christian fundamentalist attacks. The 3 studies did. You then made up your own study and arbitrarily combined Islam with the left. No study did this, you did. I was simply following the data from the 3 studies. They said right wing was far far worse. I didn't combine or fudge any numbers.

You LOST.

3 studies > You. I won the debate. Like every thread.

right-wingers and white supremacists were responsible for 74 percent of the murders committed by political extremists in the United States over the past decade. Only 2 percent were committed by left-wing radicals.

Avatar image for boxrekt
#89 Edited by BoxRekt (132 posts) -

What exactly do you mean by "high end Next gen graphics"?

Do you PC guys not realize that the best looking PC games are nothing more than upresed console ports?

As long as the base hardware of consoles is 4 to 6x higher than current 1.3 - 1.8TF systems there will indeed be high end next gen graphics.

2015's The Witcher 3 is still praised by PC fans as a spectacle of graphics, but even with all it's mods it's completely trashed by console exclusive Red Dead Redemption 2.

Can't believe how dumb some gamers are trying to make statements about things they don't understand.

Games developed ground up for 12TF systems >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Games developed ground up for 1.8TF systems

Simple!

Stop being stupid please.

Avatar image for blackhairedhero
#90 Edited by Blackhairedhero (2538 posts) -

@zaryia: You posted studies from the SPLC a far left source that classified the proud boys( as white supremacist) even though they have gay black members.

You lose!

Just like when you said PC gamers are higher skilled. You lost that to..

Avatar image for zaryia
#91 Edited by Zaryia (7001 posts) -
@blackhairedhero said:

@zaryia: You posted studies from the SPLC a far left source that classified the proud boys( as white supremacist) even though they have gay black members.

And The Cato Institute

And The Government Accountability Office.

You lost this debate. Nothing you say changes this fact.

@blackhairedhero said:

Just like when you said PC gamers are higher skilled. You lost that to..

1. Games. Not gamers. My paramount claim is competitive PC games are higher skill cap and ceiling, and far more numerous. Which is 100% true.

2. That wasn't a real study. It was an online CoD flash game that anyone could take.

Avatar image for blackhairedhero
#92 Edited by Blackhairedhero (2538 posts) -

@zaryia: It all uses the same data you dunce. It links Christian extremists to right wing ideology but fails to link Islam with the left grouping in it's own category. Three studies that use the same source and criteria for their findings.

You lose!

1. No their not. Fighting games would be number 1 in terms of skill cap and are dominant on PS4.

2. The original test wasn't an online flash game.

You love studies so much but won't accept this one!

Avatar image for zaryia
#93 Edited by Zaryia (7001 posts) -
@blackhairedhero said:

@zaryia: It all uses the same data you dunce. It links Christian extremists to right wing ideology but fails to link Islam with the left grouping in it's own category. Three studies that use the same source and criteria for their findings.

I posted 3 studies from 3 highly reliable sources (one of them the Government of the United States) directly saying what I'm claiming. You couldn't counter or refute any of them with citation.

You lost the debate. There is no universe were that wasn't a clear loss.

@blackhairedhero said:

1. No their not. Fighting games would be number 1 in terms of skill cap and are dominant on PS4.

2. The original test wasn't an online flash game.

You love studies so much but won't accept this one!

1. Dozens of MOBA, RTS, FPS > 2 Fighting games. PC holds 90% of esports dominance. This isn't debatable,

http://www.esportsearnings.com/games

2. It wasn't peer reviewed and there was no methodology. I would never link such a survey/poll. No one would.

I do love studies. Reliable ones with factual data. I'm not going to say a CoD Black Ops II flash game is a proper verified study. That's silly, an online survey needs to link the methodology or peer reviewed source.

Avatar image for blackhairedhero
#94 Posted by Blackhairedhero (2538 posts) -

@zaryia: stop spinning again loser.

"My paramount claim is competitive PC games are higher skill cap and ceiling"

WRONG! Fighting games are the highest skill cap and ceiling and are dominated on consoles.

YOU LOSE!

You may have more competative games but they do not require higher skill caps. Proven by the fact you have lower skilled players.

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#95 Edited by Zaryia (7001 posts) -
@blackhairedhero said:

@zaryia:

"My paramount claim is competitive PC games are higher skill cap and ceiling"

And it's true. Which is why PC holds 90%+ of e-sports.

P.S. Highest skill ceiling in the planet at the moment is KB/M Shooters, followed by extreme APM RTS games. Even if fighters were up there, there isn't enough and certainly not enough players. Each PC genre has millions more.

Competitive gamers choose PC 9/10 times.

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#96 Edited by Blackhairedhero (2538 posts) -

@zaryia: then why are PC gamers worse at shooters?

Also I need a study that shows FPS on a KB+M requires the most skill.

You literally just made that shit up.

Esports dominates on PC due to the popularity of the platform in Asia.

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#97 Edited by Zaryia (7001 posts) -
@blackhairedhero said:

@zaryia: then why are PC gamers worse at shooters?

1. They aren't. There is no actual valid data showing this. That's not an actual study.

2. That's irrelevant, kb/m takes has a higher skillcap/ceiling than thumbsticks. Guess which system uses which. Like I said, Games > Gamers.

@blackhairedhero said:

Esports dominates on PC due to the popularity of the platform in Asia.

Because PC has several times the competitive players, genres, and games on Earth. PS4 has around 3, and a fraction of the competitive gamers. It simply doesn't have as many, and the few it does are low skill cap.

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#98 Posted by MonsieurX (38472 posts) -

Classic Zarya derailing threads with stupid unrelated crap

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#99 Posted by Blackhairedhero (2538 posts) -

@zaryia:

1. Then post a study that counters it and refutes it?

2. A controller doesn't just have thumb sticks. And according to the study it doesn't explain why PC gamers are worse.

3. Fighting games are played at a higher skill cap then any of the garbage you mentioned. So saying it only has low skill cap games is laugable.

Anyway I'll continue to watch you meltdown and derail as you lose another debate.

I'll stay on topic from now on.

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#100 Edited by Zaryia (7001 posts) -
@MonsieurX said:

Classic Zarya derailing threads with stupid unrelated crap

ehhh....

@blackhairedhero said:

@zaryia: When people throw facts in your face you have a meltdown.

He bumped this 1 day old thread to attack me. This was the first post of our chain. I never even mentioned him until this off-topic random attack.