Next Gen Pro Consoles: Why Buy Them?

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#1 Edited by XVision84 (14264 posts) -

Microsoft (and I believe Sony) have heavily hinted at the next round of consoles including standard and Pro versions. However, I don't see what the draw of the Pro versions would be.

The current Pro consoles are mostly GPU upgrades that are meant to push native/upscaled 4k. However, it's widely expected that next gen consoles should handle native 4k 30fps. What will be the case for next gen's Pro versions?

4k 60fps: You need top tier GPU's to run modern, demanding games at 4k 60fps consistently (on high/ultra settings). These GPU's are well over the price of an entire console. Furthermore, this would require markedly stronger CPU's as well so the price disparity between models would be very large.

Improved effects/textures: Does this really warrant an entire extra console line? Will future consoles be showed off using Pro versions, leaving standard console users to wonder what the game will look like on their console? So far this has been avoided because the only differentiating factor has been resolution but this will not be the case next gen.

What do you think next gen Pro consoles will be marketed around?

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#2 Posted by ProtossRushX (4588 posts) -

The PS5 is gonna be a marvel I mean if it sucks people will just build a PC

I think sony is smart and knows that and is gonna make a beast and a lot of games and just rock n ' roll like this last generation

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#3 Posted by Archangel3371 (26083 posts) -

Going to have to wait and see what the mid gen consoles for next gen are going to be like before one can answer on whether to buy one or not. We don’t even know what the next gen base models are going to be like yet.

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#4 Posted by DaVillain- (32431 posts) -

Depending on the exclusive games launches that catches my fancy, I'll buy the base model just to play that game. I bought the PS4 on launch day, I never bother to upgrade the Pro at all. My launch PS4 is still alive & kicking, I didn't buy the Pro, so I doubt I'll buy PS5 Pro.

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#5 Edited by Kali-B1rd (1452 posts) -

"Its widely expected that the next gen consoles with have 4k 30fps"

What?

Consoles can only be as good as the latest GPUs ... if you want default 4k on a non-pro ... your not going to see much of a graphics jump......

Real question is why would you not wait for a pro? why have the lesser experience?

I won't be getting the next Sony console until the mid gen upgrade.... no rush.

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#6 Posted by XVision84 (14264 posts) -

@Archangel3371: There is speculation that there might be multiple console models right from launch rather than a mid gen upgrade.

Even if it does end up being a mid gen upgrade, I really can't see them pulling off $400-$500 4k 60fps in 4 or 5 years.

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#7 Posted by rzxv04 (237 posts) -

@XVision84 said:

Microsoft (and I believe Sony) have heavily hinted at the next round of consoles including standard and Pro versions. However, I don't see what the draw of the Pro versions would be.

The current Pro consoles are mostly GPU upgrades that are meant to push native/upscaled 4k. However, it's widely expected that next gen consoles should handle native 4k 30fps. What will be the case for next gen's Pro versions?

4k 60fps: You need top tier GPU's to run modern, demanding games at 4k 60fps consistently (on high/ultra settings). These GPU's are well over the price of an entire console. Furthermore, this would require markedly stronger CPU's as well so the price disparity between models would be very large.

Improved effects/textures: Does this really warrant an entire extra console line? Will future consoles be showed off using Pro versions, leaving standard console users to wonder what the game will look like on their console? So far this has been avoided because the only differentiating factor has been resolution but this will not be the case next gen.

What do you think next gen Pro consoles will be marketed around?

More power, better graphics, better AR/VR experience.. a bit of a stretch but maybe *Ray Tracing.

*"Hybrid Rendering" layman's term.

Yep. No way they're gonna advertise games using the weaker console.

Standard users won't have to wonder much, just resolution difference mostly. Relatable to current base PS4/1X comparisons maybe. Hopefully not as bad with load times.

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#8 Edited by ronvalencia (26380 posts) -

@XVision84 said:

Microsoft (and I believe Sony) have heavily hinted at the next round of consoles including standard and Pro versions. However, I don't see what the draw of the Pro versions would be.

The current Pro consoles are mostly GPU upgrades that are meant to push native/upscaled 4k. However, it's widely expected that next gen consoles should handle native 4k 30fps. What will be the case for next gen's Pro versions?

4k 60fps: You need top tier GPU's to run modern, demanding games at 4k 60fps consistently (on high/ultra settings). These GPU's are well over the price of an entire console. Furthermore, this would require markedly stronger CPU's as well so the price disparity between models would be very large.

Improved effects/textures: Does this really warrant an entire extra console line? Will future consoles be showed off using Pro versions, leaving standard console users to wonder what the game will look like on their console? So far this has been avoided because the only differentiating factor has been resolution but this will not be the case next gen.

What do you think next gen Pro consoles will be marketed around?

12 TFLOPS and 64 ROPS doubles X1X's 6 TFLOPS with 32 ROPS and 2 MB render cache (doesn't exist for Polaris IP).

RTG needs to scale from Vega M GH which has 24 CU and 64 ROPS ratio e.g. 48 CU with 128 ROPS.

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#9 Posted by Ten_Pints (3492 posts) -

Sony did mention specifically what is required for 4K, didn't they say 13Tflops minimum, so I guess it will be around that.

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#10 Posted by SaltSlasher (439 posts) -

People always want the next big thing.

Might be shocking to learn that Xbox has a ton of fans who will buy the next machine, just like PlayStation has plenty of fans who will buy into PS5. I personally am a gamer, so I just buy them. Of course I have to pick which one first, likely go with Xbox cause I like their games more and they always have the best features. Plus I still got all the backlog of Japanese games to play on PS4...of course I could just play them on PC.

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#11 Edited by pdogg93 (1186 posts) -

Cause I’m not a poor lemming stuck with the notion at a 720p console is ok in 2018

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#12 Posted by sakaiXx (4010 posts) -

As long as sony devs is around I will continue to buy a PlayStation. They make good games

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#13 Posted by thehig1 (6955 posts) -

@ronvalencia said:
@XVision84 said:

Microsoft (and I believe Sony) have heavily hinted at the next round of consoles including standard and Pro versions. However, I don't see what the draw of the Pro versions would be.

The current Pro consoles are mostly GPU upgrades that are meant to push native/upscaled 4k. However, it's widely expected that next gen consoles should handle native 4k 30fps. What will be the case for next gen's Pro versions?

4k 60fps: You need top tier GPU's to run modern, demanding games at 4k 60fps consistently (on high/ultra settings). These GPU's are well over the price of an entire console. Furthermore, this would require markedly stronger CPU's as well so the price disparity between models would be very large.

Improved effects/textures: Does this really warrant an entire extra console line? Will future consoles be showed off using Pro versions, leaving standard console users to wonder what the game will look like on their console? So far this has been avoided because the only differentiating factor has been resolution but this will not be the case next gen.

What do you think next gen Pro consoles will be marketed around?

12 TFLOPS and 64 ROPS doubles X1X's 6 TFLOPS with 32 ROPS and 2 MB render cache (doesn't exist for Polaris IP).

RTG needs to scale from Vega M GH which has 24 CU and 64 ROPS ratio e.g. 48 CU with 128 ROPS.

What ?

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#14 Edited by Sevenizz (2033 posts) -

I’m not really a fan of the playstation brand. I’ve acquired 2 (ps2 & 3) and they mostly sit idle while I play something else (Xbox/GameCube, PC/360, X1). Maybe the ps5’ll surprise me but who knows. That being said, I’ll most likely buy the next Xbox and if they launch a premium version, I’d lean towards that. I’ve outgrown the Nintendo brand and the playstation - I doubt it.

It’s not a faboy issue, it’s an issue of what type of gamer I am. Xbox just makes systems and games I prefer.

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#15 Edited by ronvalencia (26380 posts) -

@thehig1 said:
@ronvalencia said:
@XVision84 said:

Microsoft (and I believe Sony) have heavily hinted at the next round of consoles including standard and Pro versions. However, I don't see what the draw of the Pro versions would be.

The current Pro consoles are mostly GPU upgrades that are meant to push native/upscaled 4k. However, it's widely expected that next gen consoles should handle native 4k 30fps. What will be the case for next gen's Pro versions?

4k 60fps: You need top tier GPU's to run modern, demanding games at 4k 60fps consistently (on high/ultra settings). These GPU's are well over the price of an entire console. Furthermore, this would require markedly stronger CPU's as well so the price disparity between models would be very large.

Improved effects/textures: Does this really warrant an entire extra console line? Will future consoles be showed off using Pro versions, leaving standard console users to wonder what the game will look like on their console? So far this has been avoided because the only differentiating factor has been resolution but this will not be the case next gen.

What do you think next gen Pro consoles will be marketed around?

12 TFLOPS and 64 ROPS doubles X1X's 6 TFLOPS with 32 ROPS and 2 MB render cache (doesn't exist for Polaris IP).

RTG needs to scale from Vega M GH which has 24 CU and 64 ROPS ratio e.g. 48 CU with 128 ROPS.

What ?

Using an example

Loading Video...

Vega 56 with 12.2 TFLOPS at 1710 Mhz beaten Strix Vega 64 with 13.03 TFLOPS at 1590 Mhz.

Reason: Despite lower 12.2 TFLOPS with Vega 56, 1710 Mhz clock speed improved rasterization, ROPS read/write and ROPS fix function hardware performance. TFLOPS is meaningless without classic GPU hardware.

GPU basics 101, What's a rasterization?

  • RB unit contains ROPS read/write (color and depth/Z-buffer data) and fix function hardware e.g. blend, alpha and MSAA processing. TFLOPS is meaning less without read/write hardware!
  • ROPS stands for Raster Operations.
  • Rasterizer hardware involves resolving geometry floating point to integer based pixels grid.

Rasterizer and ROPS are the core "classic GPU" hardware that divides GPU from DSP(Digital Signal Processing) or FPU (Floating Point Unit).

GTX 1080 TI has superior "classic GPU" hardware over Vega 64.

Lesson: At 12 TFLOPS, AMD should have included 96 to 128 ROPS units.

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#16 Edited by ronvalencia (26380 posts) -

@ten_pints said:

Sony did mention specifically what is required for 4K, didn't they say 13Tflops minimum, so I guess it will be around that.

Sony has stated 8 TFLOPS minimum for 4K e.g.

For Red Dead Redemption 2 for 4K 30 fps target example

At PS4 Pro GPU efficiency, it needs to be doubled into 8.4 TFLOPS. PS4 Pro renders at 1920 x 2160p pixels. Behaves like Fury X's 8.6 TFLOPS

At X1X GPU efficiency, it needs 6 TFLOPS. X1X renders at 3840 x 2160p pixels. Behaves like GTX 980 Ti's ~6 TFLOPS. X1X's major improvement is with graphics pipeline bottleneck reduction and 2MB render cache linked with ROPS. NVIDIA's Maxwell ROPS are connected to L2 cache which is missing with AMD's pre-Vega GPUs.

--

Fury/Polaris GPU has 2MB L2 cache (geometry and TMU read/write) with few KB color cache (ROPS read/write) which has high external memory hit rates.

X1X GPU has 2MB L2 cache (geometry and TMU read/write) and 2MB render cache (ROPS read/write) with lower external memory hit rates.

Vega 56/64 GPU has 4MB L2 cache (geometry, TMU read/write and ROPS read/write) with lower external memory hit rates.

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#17 Posted by Grey_Eyed_Elf (5954 posts) -

Who know's if there will be a next gen Pro console... We needed it this time due to the resolution jump with TV's and the demand for higher resolution content.

I think we will get a traditional Slim console after 2 years, their might be different SKU's at launch with bigger HDD's or even a SSD version who knows, but a Pro or X version of next gen consoles won't make sense.

Also as for specifications of the next generation cards... Everything is point to a Navi card with performance that will match or exceed a Vega 56 GPU which is all you need for 4K/30FPS and with games that require 60FPS Dynamic resolution might come into play because the Vega 56 can do 4K/60 but not on Ultra settings and consoles usually sacrifice resolution so I see dynamic resolution coming into play for 60FPS targeted games.

Overall next gen will be what the X1X and Pro where meant to be. That said its not going to be a generational leap from what is capable on a X1X... It will be like going from a GTX 1060 to a GTX 1080.

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#18 Posted by Livecommander (885 posts) -

@XVision84: 6k/ native 4k for checker board 8k lol

The next xbox is gonna have like 6 games at native 8k and lems are gonna be taking it as bragging rights

Meanwhile ps5 will have more exclusives and a 3 to 1 sales lead... again.

Best looking games overall... again.

Ill take a strong foundation over a strong roof any.

Lol at anyone who takes mid gen upgrades as anything braggable.

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#19 Posted by uninspiredcup (28602 posts) -

If you're a graphics whore the gratification will provably feel really nice.

Otherwise who gives a shit.

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#20 Posted by rzxv04 (237 posts) -

I'm guessing they can also bake in extra features for the Pro and as much barebones as possible on the base models.

Wireless charging, built in mics (that can be disabled), able to connect any bluetooth accessories, quieter console, built in vertical stand, etc. as small incentives for the higher tier model. Doubt most of these though.

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#21 Edited by Gatygun (1236 posts) -
@XVision84 said:

Microsoft (and I believe Sony) have heavily hinted at the next round of consoles including standard and Pro versions. However, I don't see what the draw of the Pro versions would be.

The current Pro consoles are mostly GPU upgrades that are meant to push native/upscaled 4k. However, it's widely expected that next gen consoles should handle native 4k 30fps. What will be the case for next gen's Pro versions?

4k 60fps: You need top tier GPU's to run modern, demanding games at 4k 60fps consistently (on high/ultra settings). These GPU's are well over the price of an entire console. Furthermore, this would require markedly stronger CPU's as well so the price disparity between models would be very large.

Improved effects/textures: Does this really warrant an entire extra console line? Will future consoles be showed off using Pro versions, leaving standard console users to wonder what the game will look like on their console? So far this has been avoided because the only differentiating factor has been resolution but this will not be the case next gen.

What do you think next gen Pro consoles will be marketed around?

Why would you assume PS5 will run games at native 4k and 30 fps.

When.

1) PS3 couldn't run games at 720p on any decent level

2) PS4 couldn't run games out of the gate at native 1080p while being the stronger console out of the two.

3) PS4 pro can't deal with 4k in any meaningful way even RDR2 isn't even hitting that spot even remotely.

But suddently PS5 is going to do 4k 30fps at ultra settings flawlessly right?

Now look at assassin creed odyssey, even a 2080 ti can't push 60 fps at 4k stable on ultra settings, it will dip all the way down to 31 fps at times.

So to get a locked 30 fps at 4k with this generation complexity, even a 13tflop gpu is getting pushed to its limits and that's with the complexity of current generation games.

What makes you think a 12 tflop or 11 tflop amd gpu is going to be capable to push on ultra settings with a game world that is far more detailed and more taxing because it's the new low settings to focus on.

It's not happening.

People talk about 4k if its something easy to push. It's not. The only reason xbox can push it, is because lots of settings get sacrificed just to push the resolution.

The only way i can see them push it without issue's is when games are going to be limited around again older generation consoles. Which probably happens at the start of the gen.

If you want a proper gen visual upgrade, the PS5 will have issue's pushing 1080p and 30 fps let alone 4k with a 11tflop gpu. And that's not even a joke.

The better question is going to be: Why are people interested in buying the base PS5 version when they know the PS5 pro is around the corner when games actually start to hit on that platform.

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#22 Posted by GoldenElementXL (2344 posts) -

The pro consoles are the ones you're gonna want to get. It's those base models that will be lacking. Whatever the next gen is will not be a 'huge" step over the Pro and X. "Next gen" is gonna be the weakest leap we've ever seen in gaming history.

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#23 Edited by Dr_Vancouver (1000 posts) -

"pro" versions of next gen consoles will happen mid-next-gen, when a PS5 and a XBtwo launch they'll be a safe investment until halfway through the generation so don't lose sleep.

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#24 Edited by SolidGame_basic (23272 posts) -

Why do people spend money on microtransactions? Companies will try to make money in any way they can.

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#25 Posted by Sushiglutton (6933 posts) -

This gen I gamed on PC until the pro, then I jumped in. It wasn't a plan, but in hindsight it makes some sense actually. Beginning of the gen was pretty barren in terms of good games. I kind of expect even more cross gen titles this time around. Then when the library has matured you jump in.

Another thing I like about the pro is that the chance of games running poorly is low as some version of them must run on the base version.

I don't know if I will this patient next gen, but I will consider it.

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#26 Posted by robert_sparkes (1524 posts) -

True 4K gaming I for one won't be upgrading straight away I usually wait a year or so before the library is beefed up.