Epic Store deals another horrendous blow to Steam with pro-consumer practice

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Avatar image for R10nu
#51 Posted by R10nu (1447 posts) -

@Pedro said:

I don't see people complaining when games are exclusively available on Steam. Why is it a concern now for Epic?

Probably because Steam exclusivity results from objective boons of the platform for both developers and consumers, not from exclusivity deals.

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#52 Posted by Pedro (32703 posts) -

@R10nu said:

Probably because Steam exclusivity results from objective boons of the platform for both developers and consumers, not from exclusivity deals.

Exclusivity is still exclusivity. If you are against it conditionally then there is a obvious bias that needs to be addressed.

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#53 Posted by R10nu (1447 posts) -

@Pedro said:

Exclusivity is still exclusivity. If you are against it conditionally then there is a obvious bias that needs to be addressed.

I'm against exclusivity deals. I believe I made that crystal clear.

If devs of, say, ARMA 3 find rebuilding Steam's community features, which it uses extensively, from scratch for the sake of releasing the game on GOG to be more trouble than it's worth, i can't blame them.

If they won't release on GOG because Gaben paid them big mula, that'd be an issue.

But it's not the case, is it.

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#54 Posted by I_P_Daily (9834 posts) -

So will this game get a physical release or only digital?

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#55 Edited by DaVillain- (33689 posts) -

@R10nu said:
@Pedro said:

I don't see people complaining when games are exclusively available on Steam. Why is it a concern now for Epic?

Probably because Steam exclusivity results from objective boons of the platform for both developers and consumers, not from exclusivity deals.

I don't see what's the big deal, certain Clients have exclusive deals. Epic is no different then the other Clients. Bottom line, you are using the PC, you have access to Steam and Epic at the same time. Create an account and your all set. I'm with Pedro on this one. I have lots of Clients on the PC and different games on each Clients all in one system.

If this was a console exclusive, then we'd have a problem.

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#56 Posted by Pedro (32703 posts) -

@R10nu: If the end results are the same why does it matter how the exclusivity came to be? The fact is that their are games that are only available on Steam for whatever reason or circumstances. No one complained despite this fact. But now it's a problem because Epic has a messily startup handful on their service and it's a problem. 😑

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#57 Posted by R10nu (1447 posts) -

@davillain- said:

I don't see what's the big deal, certain Clients have exclusive deals. Epic is no different then the other Clients. Bottom line, you are using the PC, you have access to Steam and Epic at the same time. Create an account and your all set. I'm with Pedro on this one. I have lots of Clients on the PC and different games on each Clients all in one system.

If this was a console exclusive, then we'd have a problem.

The problem is, in this particular case Epic store is not an "option" like Pedro claims. That's all there is to it.

If it was an actual option, nobody would take it over Steam or, shit, even Origin. Because Epic store in its current form is dogshit. And when people call out Epic's attempts to buy their way into relevancy with Fortnite money, don't tell them they're wrong or hypocritical.

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#58 Posted by Diddies (2300 posts) -

@blaznwiipspman1 said:

@uninspiredcup: good, steam needs some competition. I have origin already which is an ubisoft online service for only ubi games. So this doesn't mean much to me anyway. Either way, good news, more competition lower prices. Consumer wins.

I think you mean UPlay because Origin is EA.

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#59 Edited by PimpHand_Gamer (2825 posts) -

I'm just taking Epic's free games. Don't plan on buying jack. I hate having my gaming library segregated into various accounts like this but EA doesn't have to falter since they are their own huge publisher. Hopefully it makes Valve step up their game but they probably won't react until they start to lose a significant amount of sales.

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#60 Posted by R10nu (1447 posts) -
@Pedro said:

If the end results are the same why does it matter how the exclusivity came to be?

The end results are not the same.

You get a circumstantial "exclusivity" on the best, time tested platform with the largest install base vs a paid-for exclusivity on a shitty patchwork platform that doesn't even filter obvious mass scam-bot friend invites and password reset attempts.

Good deal vs Shit deal, except good deal got scratched out of the equation with stacks of cash. What a nice "option" to be stuck with a shit deal, amirite? Finally, a worthy competitor to Steam, amirite?

And holy crapoly if you genuinely don't realize how supporting a company that pays for games to not appear on other platforms is different to supporting a company that ends up with exclusives for no fault of their own but industry-leading service and free development tools.

Yeah, circumstances matter in everything. What a shocker.

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#61 Posted by blaznwiipspman1 (7089 posts) -

@Diddies said:
@blaznwiipspman1 said:

@uninspiredcup: good, steam needs some competition. I have origin already which is an ubisoft online service for only ubi games. So this doesn't mean much to me anyway. Either way, good news, more competition lower prices. Consumer wins.

I think you mean UPlay because Origin is EA.

ohh, you're right...nvm then. Well if ubi has uplay, then I guess theres still no point in joining the epic thing either.

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#62 Edited by Toxic-Seahorse (5050 posts) -

The Epic Games Store was built to be anti consumer. No reviews, no support forums, awful refund policy. It's completely anti-consume. but what it is is, pro-developer. A smaller cut and no reviews is a great thing for developers. I don't see this move turning out well for either Epic or the developers that choose to be exclusive to it. It won't be insanely obvious with The Division 2 since Uplay still exists to buy the game on, but if another developer tries the same thing without their own platform, I don't see things ending very well for them.

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#63 Posted by mrbojangles25 (42738 posts) -
  • Would someone please tell me how limiting availability and/or choice is pro-consumer?
  • Or are they offering discounts to customers since developers only owe Epic 10% instead of Steam's 25% ?
    • No discount? Hmmm. So really, this is pro-publisher and pro-developer.
  • Do they have a large back catalog of games available for cheap?
    • No? Any word on that? No? Darn.
  • What about a strong community full of forums, groups, friends, game guides, mod workshops, and so on?
    • No? Geee that's too bad. Well it only took Valve 14 years or so to build theirs I am sure Epic is hot on their tail.
  • Do they have a good rating with the BBB? That would be a good reason!
    • An "F" you say? Surely this is from review bombi--...oh it's a rating built up over years of complaints due to negligent customer support? Well that's too bad. But you don't care about your money and quality products that much anyway, right?
@Rockman999 said:

But I thought Hermits loved the freedom and openness of PC gaming?

Sooner or later Gabe's testicles are going to run out of semen and y'all just end up sucking on air.

Gabe's supply is endless! ENDLESS!

hashtagneverstopsucking

@Randoggy said:

People are easily enticed by shit it seems.

Yeah no kidding.

Come for the free Subnautica, stay for the Fortnite [while they bleed you for hundreds of dollars imperceptibly over the years]

@R4gn4r0k said:
@ProtossRushX said:

Dude these games are adding up pretty soon steam will have to confront this threat I mean this is huge you got super meat boy forever 1 year timed you got division 2 you got subnautica free edith finch free wheres my free shit on steam

Uhm:

  • Red Orchestra 2
  • Left 4 Dead
  • Payday
  • Payday 2
  • Company of Heroes 2

Plenty of free games on steam

  • Warframe
  • Path of Exile
  • War Thunder
  • DOTA 2
  • Team Fortress 2
  • World of Warships
  • World of Tanks
  • Counter-Strike

To add on a few more.

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#64 Edited by AnthonyAutumns (1615 posts) -

@GarGx1: Let's see if their shop give competitive prices. If they don't, I'll just forget the game existed. After all, I'm still enjoying playing Monster Hunter World till now and there would be massive update in August. And I'm also interested in God Eater 3 which is also a monster hunting game which, correct me if wrong, will come out in Feb.

Btw, if the game doesn't have regional pricing, the amount you'll normally have to pay is double to triple, at least in Philippines.

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#65 Posted by rmpumper (387 posts) -

I'll just take the free games and won't buy anything as I only tried Fortnite once and then fucker in Asia tried to hack my Epic account ~5 times in 24h after that. So that means that it is possible to see the registration email somewhere in the profile data. **** that shit.

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#66 Posted by Pedro (32703 posts) -

@R10nu: I think you need to not react to the situation in such an emotional manner. You are acting irrational.

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#67 Posted by GarGx1 (10712 posts) -

@anthonyautumns: To be perfectly honest I'm not sure if I'll even get the Division 2. I have over 400 hours with the first one and not sure if I'm ready for more. I want to see how Anthem is before I make a decision, it's very unlikely that I'll get both.

Really, I just don't see the point in missing out on a game because it's not sold in a certain shop and there are far cheaper ways of getting legitimate game keys. As you've said though you have other games to play and it's not high on your agenda.

I really don't know that much about the pricing of games outside of the UK, other than I know where to get games cheaper than they are generally available on Steam, Uplay, Origin or Battle.net.

Avatar image for R10nu
#68 Posted by R10nu (1447 posts) -

@Pedro said:

@R10nu: I think you need to not react to the situation in such an emotional manner. You are acting irrational.

There's nothing emotional or irrational about my response, just pragmatism. You're the one claiming that Epic's exclusive deals are "options" for the consumer. I shouldn't even have to explain how beyond irrational that stance is, but here you are trying to defend it.

And then shifting the discussion to my character when that defense predictably doesn't work out.

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#69 Posted by xantufrog (10323 posts) -

@mrbojangles25: but teh kompetishon.

I wonder how much of the enthusiasm correlates with being a Fortnite fan?

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#70 Posted by Pedro (32703 posts) -

@R10nu said:

There's nothing emotional or irrational about my response, just pragmatism. You're the one claiming that Epic's exclusive deals are "options" for the consumer. I shouldn't even have to explain how beyond irrational that stance is, but here you are trying to defend it.

And then shifting the discussion to my character when that defense predictably doesn't work out.

Please don't make arguments I did not make. You made that claim for me, for that was never implied in any of my previous posts.

Exclusivity deals are now "offering an option". @R10nu

To which I referred you to the fact that Steam has exclusives and probably the largest number of exclusives yet no one bitches about it. You then went into an argument (shifting the argument about exclusives) about how one is paid the other is "earned" (for lack of a better classification) when it doesn't really matter. Because at the end of the day if you want to play certain games you need to acquire it from specific online distributions.

As I have said before, gamers choose where they can lay their support. The fact that a choice can be made is because their are OPTIONS. Not liking an option does not make it any less of an option.

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#71 Posted by xantufrog (10323 posts) -

@Pedro: steam's exclusives are anti-consumer too. How many of them come down to the simple fact that the devs don't want to go DRM free on GoG? This is all about money and the businesses - none of this helped us under Steam and Epic is only propagating the problem by spreading the exclusive war across more digital platforms.

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#72 Posted by Icarian (1831 posts) -

@anthonyautumns: Does steam have regional pricing in Philippines? Steam doesn't have that in Europe which is why I use GoG or retail. Retail pc games are still 10-15 € cheaper than on Steam.

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#73 Posted by Pedro (32703 posts) -

@xantufrog said:

@Pedro: steam's exclusives are anti-consumer too. How many of them come down to the simple fact that the devs don't want to go DRM free on GoG? This is all about money and the businesses - none of this helped us under Steam and Epic is only propagating the problem by spreading the exclusive war across more digital platforms.

This is why the burden is on gamers. We have to take stances with our purchases. But, gamers have a tendency of complaining about things and not changing their behavior to create the change they want. Except for he rare occasion of group think, which is typically aimed at EA and Bethesda. :)

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#74 Posted by R10nu (1447 posts) -
@Pedro said:

Please don't make arguments I did not make. You made that claim for me, for that was never implied in any of my previous posts.

Faulty memory?

@Pedro said:

Epic offering is an option.

Wait. You're going to spin the whole "even though i posted in a thread that talks about a specific exclusivity deal, i was talking about Epic store as a whole" tripe, won't you?

@Pedro said:
You then went into an argument (shifting the argument about exclusives) about how one is paid the other is "earned" (for lack of a better classification) when it doesn't really matter.

It matters a lot. One provides good service and security and the other doesn't.

It's getting a product with warranty versus a product without. But i guess to someone... inspirational, if the price is the same, there're no differences whatsoever. And you're forced to buy it from a different store, so you're technically supporting competition! Through no will of your own, and to no benefit for you, the consumer.

You wanna delve into hypotheticals and predict what kind of reaction these scummy practices from Epic, if successful, can prompt from Steam and the "benefits" the consumer will reap from it?

@Pedro said:

The fact that a choice can be made is because their are OPTIONS. Not liking an option does not make it any less of an option.

Not having more than one option makes it not an option by definition.

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#75 Posted by ahmedkhan1994 (631 posts) -
@xantufrog said:

@Pedro: steam's exclusives are anti-consumer too. How many of them come down to the simple fact that the devs don't want to go DRM free on GoG? This is all about money and the businesses - none of this helped us under Steam and Epic is only propagating the problem by spreading the exclusive war across more digital platforms.

Granted this is a PC issue but i think the craze over exclusives in the console space (PS4 & Switch vs Xbox) in the recent years has justified the race for exclusive content.

The one company (Microsoft) that decided to expand to multiple platforms rather than to double down on making their games exclusive to xbox only is being scrutinized every day for not having anymore true exclusives. Its not a surprise that the results are carrying over to PC territory.

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#76 Posted by xantufrog (10323 posts) -

@Pedro: that's true, we definitely seem to say one thing but ultimately go on and gobble up stuff anyway (on average, not individual cases of course)

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#77 Posted by Pedro (32703 posts) -

@R10nu said:
@Pedro said:

Please don't make arguments I did not make. You made that claim for me, for that was never implied in any of my previous posts.

Faulty memory?

@Pedro said:

Epic offering is an option.

Wait. You're going to spin the whole "even though i posted in a thread that talks about a specific exclusivity deal, i was talking about Epic store as a whole" tripe, won't you?

@Pedro said:
You then went into an argument (shifting the argument about exclusives) about how one is paid the other is "earned" (for lack of a better classification) when it doesn't really matter.

It matters a lot. One provides good service and security and the other doesn't.

It's getting a product with warranty versus a product without. But i guess to someone... inspirational, if the price is the same, there're no differences whatsoever. And you're forced to buy it from a different store, so you're technically supporting competition! Through no will of your own, and to no benefit for you, the consumer.

You wanna delve into hypotheticals and predict what kind of reaction these scummy practices from Epic, if successful, can prompt from Steam and the "benefits" the consumer will reap from it?

@Pedro said:

The fact that a choice can be made is because their are OPTIONS. Not liking an option does not make it any less of an option.

Not having more than one option makes it not an option by definition.

No faulty memory. Even your quotes doesn't back your claim that I stated "...that Epic's exclusive deals are "options" for the consumer." And since you opted to remove the rest of the quote let me include it because the follow up to that quote makes the context particularly clear

Epic offering is an option. If it succeeds, it then becomes the option that gamers' prefer. At the end of it all, its all various options on the same platform. Not all options are to everyone's liking but not being to a specific preference doesn't negate it from being an option. That is what the PC platform allows.

Now you just grasping at straws. How they acquire their exclusives has NOTHING to do with good service and security. You literally deviated from the point that how exclusives for either platform are acquired doesn't matter.

As for your last sentence well "Option: a thing that is or may be chosen."

Like stated before you are reacting to this overly emotional and irrational. At this point you are not even arguing to the initial quibble you had with my comment (which you are still incorrect on. :))

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#78 Edited by AnthonyAutumns (1615 posts) -

@Icarian: Yeah, there is. A $60 game like Monster Hunter World costs $30.65 here. But not all publishers give regional pricing like Microsoft and Square Enix as both have games at a price tag of $60. While Capcom and Bamco are mixed; SFV was $60 at launch while DS3 was $60 as well.

IIRC, I pre-ordered TW3 at around $24.

P. S. An unskilled worker here earns from around 76 usd to 96usd. And that's monthly.

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#79 Posted by DaVillain- (33689 posts) -

The only surprising thing is that Ubisoft bothering with Epic's storefront instead of just sticking with UPlay. And lets be honest here, It's not going to do a damn thing to their sales except maybe provide a scapegoat if they're under-performing and now that Epic Store has a refund policy, it wouldn't really matter if Steam doesn't get Division 2, the Refund in Epic matches Steam's policy now.

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#80 Posted by Pedro (32703 posts) -

@xantufrog: Looks like consumer pressure is changing some things with their store

The Epic Games Store Has Changed Its Refund Policy To Match Steam's

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#81 Edited by DaVillain- (33689 posts) -

@Pedro said:

@xantufrog: Looks like consumer pressure is changing some things with their store

The Epic Games Store Has Changed Its Refund Policy To Match Steam's

If you want people to use your service, you need to provide better service than your competitors. Offering the same service as your competitors does nothing to help drive customers to yours.

It's a good start, Epic knows they need more features and they have lots of money so let's see what they do in the coming months.

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#82 Posted by Pedro (32703 posts) -

@davillain- said:

If you want people to use your service, you need to provide better service than your competitors. Offering the same service as your competitors does nothing to help drive customers to yours.

It's a good start, Epic knows they need more features and they have lots of money so let's see what they do in the coming months.

That's why I view all of this "Epic is going to destroy PC gaming "ideals"" nonsense as a general overreaction. If gamers truly don't like something it would not survive.

Avatar image for R10nu
#83 Posted by R10nu (1447 posts) -

@Pedro said:

Now you just grasping at straws.

Says the guy who went to grasp at straws in the exact way i have predicted in my previous post, and who's continuously trying to paint me as unhinged. Wew lad.

@Pedro said:
How they acquire their exclusives has NOTHING to do with good service and security.

Whose point of view are you arguing here? Because it sure as shit isn't consumer's.

So stop pretending that consumer wins from this, which was your original point no matter how you weasel and spin it around.

The bottom line is, Epic offered a shitty deal and paid money so the consumer is left with no better options and is stuck with their shitty deal.

And the deal is very clear-cut:

  • Ubi gets cash upfront
  • Epic gets more users for their trash storefront
  • Consumer gets an Epic™ Horse cock-shaped toothbrush designed by Ninja™.
  • If Epic sees success with this kind of scumbaggery, Valve might start adopting it.

Yours is but one example of how fence sitting doesn't necessarily provide a balanced view.